I've heard the quote that on average men think about sex every 7 seconds, I personally think that those numbers might be a little on the conservative side :-)- 4.2 million pornographic websites (12% of total websites)
- 372 million pornographic pages
- 25% of daily search engine requests are people searching for pornography.
- 1.5 million people a day will visit a pornographic website
Pornography won't spice up your sex life, it will poison it. It introduces false comparisons and can introduce distrust and selfishness into your marriage. The sexual relationship in your marriage was never intended to be compared to what you see on a video or in a magazine (Hebrews 13:4).
Sexual struggles, immorality and adultery have taken down lots of good husbands and fathers who belonged to God. Once you sexually crash and burn publicly, you're life, your fathering skills, your ministry and your influence is never the same (see King David).
AS FOR ME? I'll be honest (as I always am), sexual temptation is a huge temptation. If you think I'm not tempted because I'm a minister, you're nuts! I'm tempted because sex is everywhere. It's on every television channel, it's in every movie, it's on every webpage and in every magazine. It's at the mall, in the movie theater and it's at my house. That's why I've tried to clean the house of anything that can tempt me (or one of my four boys). I don't have HBO movie channels in my house. Some people can handle it, but I don't want that temptation. Our internet activity can be viewed at anytime and by anyone. There are certain channels on my television that are blocked. Why? I DO NOT want it to be a temptation in my life. I want to be faithful to my God and my wife.
WHAT CAN YOU DO TO OVERCOME SEXUAL TEMPTATION ...
- CONTROL WHAT YOU SEE: Men are very visual, so remove anything (television, internet, books, etc) from your home that might tempt you. Don't go anywhere you cannot handle. Learn to keep your eyes in check.
- SEEK GOD'S HELP AND FORGIVENESS: God has promised, you will not be tempted more that what you can bear. But you must be willing to confess your sins to Him and ask for His forgiveness and His strength.
- PURSUE YOUR WIFE: Focus on what you have, not on what you don't. Put your effort into pursuing the person you married by growing in your marriage. DON'T be like the idiot I met years ago who said after checking out a woman who walked by, "I may be on a diet, but it won't hurt anything to check out the menu." I think his marriage only lasted a few years. Quit flirting with other women and stop dropping by to see the lady you think is pretty! Pursue YOUR wife.
- BE ACCOUNTABLE: Find another person that you trust that can keep you accountable. When you struggle tell them to pray for you and have them hold you accountable for overcoming your struggles. One of the greatest defenses I have in staying pure is a couple of men friends that are willing to talk about marriage and struggles with me.
- WIVES, DON'T STARVE YOUR HUSBANDS: Too many times I’ve listened to wives whine about their husbands' struggles with lust when all along it was the wife who was starving their husbands sexually. Don't starve your husband sexually and then berate him for his hunger. If you want to protect your husband, do what the Bible says (1 Corinthians 7:2-5). Don’t deprive him, or you’ll make his struggle to be pure harder. You can do your part in keeping your husband from being vulnerable to sexual temptation. (For more on this topic click here).
One of these days my funeral will come. I COULD CARE LESS if anyone mentions if I was a good minister or could preach a good sermon. I DO NOT CARE if anyone mentions that I ever helped anyone. MY ONLY GOAL, as they stand over my dead body, is that they say, "He was faithful to God, his wife, and he was a good dad!"
Labels: His Needs Her Needs, Marriage, Sexuality
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54 Comments:
Amen Trey! Just about every guy I knows is tempted every now and then with pornography. Tough stuff. Good thoughts, comments, and suggestions.
Jeremy Divis
I'm truly amazed at the junk that falls into my e-mail. One the other day had the title "Sleep With Someone Else's Wife Tonight." It was from a site that guaranteed to arrange an affair for you.
The slogan: Forget the Vow, Enjoy the Wow.
Ouch!
Thanks for addressing this. One minister friend told me that 1 out of every 4 ministers he talks with admits having a porn problem. We can't stick our heads in the sand.
Grace and peace,
Tim
This has been one of the most honest posts on the subject of sexual struggle that I've ever read. You didn't sugar coat any aspect of if from both sides of the line. Awesome - good job
Thanks for a great post full of honesty. One of the issues near and dear to my heart is sexual trafficking and child exploitation. Every child victim of sexual abuse has a huge chance of becoming a molester themselves.
Keep our kids innocent and give them this type of outlook on sexuality. Not a bad or taboo issue but good thing, in the confines of a committed relationship.
God bless you for taking on an issue that threatens not only the very fiber of America but of our churches as well. All of your points (including sex is GOOD in Marriage) need to be affirm in our churches.
Satan has found a tool that he can use to manipulate our natural sexual desires. We must be on guard against the evil one and like you, be bold enough to talk about porn and it's harmful effects as well as equip our people for the battle.
Great post Brother.
amen,
we all need to be strong and cling to the cross.
seen the mark driscoll material available for free??
So, I was going to leave a post about this really cool book that Mark Driscoll is writing about this subject, but then remembered that I saw it here first. "Trey Morgan - First with News". The only thing that I can add is that the only way out is facing that it's aproblem, but then learning about God and his word. I know this sounds simple, but if you've been in the pit, you know it's THE only way out without being pulled back in. In the men's group I help lead we call this the Battle Plan, what are you going to do when the sirens come calling.
Great post Trey.
Excellent post! My wife and I did a podcast that hit this topic.
http://www.spiritualtramp.com/2008/09/spiritual_stew_episode_five_es.html
It's one I've struggled with MIGHTILY. There can be victory and you outline the major weapons we have.
i would also highly recommend have your wife be a part of your accountability. another guy might be too understanding, especially if you share the same struggle.
it is good to share with people who have a common struggle, but it also helps to have people who don't share the struggle and have a vested interested in your succes, such as your spouse.
Thanks for the kind words on a touchy subject.
Tim - In your email inbox? Sheesh!
e3 - Driscoll's stuff is excellent.
Scott - thanks for the link. I know it will be used.
Brian - You are 110% correct. Thanks for bringing that up. One of the best things you can do is talk about your struggles with your wife. AMEN, guys - listen to Brian.
I heard somewhere recently that an IT guy for a Christian University found roughly 75% of search requests were for Porn. It needs to be discussed more often at an earlier age!
I agree talking with your wife about this if you are struggling with it. I am assuming it is not talked about because women don't know what to think when they find their man ensnared in it. How about a post on what to do when you find your husband ensnared?
Thanks for opening up a subject that seems taboo.
*sigh
It's posts like this that drive me even further away from Christianity. This one comes at a time when I'm trying really hard to see value in religion.
Blanket statements like "Pornography won't spice up your sex life, it will poison it," that bother me. You've discovered something that works for you and your relationship. That's great. But you then go on and decide that it must work for everybody and their relationships as well.
The statement is patently false when it comes to my own marriage and that of others I know. Please stop deciding what is best for me and mine and leave that up to us.
This is a perfect place to pull out my favorite C.S. Lewis quote (you're probably sick of this one by now, Scott).
“One of the marks of a certain type of bad man is that he cannot give up something himself without wanting every one else to give it up. That is not the Christian way. An individual Christian may see fit to give up all sorts of things for special reasons - marriage, or meat, or beer, or the cinema; but the moment he starts saying the things are bad in themselves, or looking down his nose at other people who do use them, he has taken a wrong turning.”
This applies to pornography as well.
I think a lot of men and women (and myself) will benefit from this awesome blog post. These are some great points each of us needs to remember every day in our marriage. Thank you Trey!
I'll never get tired of that quote Sid. It's true. I happen to agree with Trey in this particular instance though and maybe that mean he and I have both taken a wrong turning, but I think that overall the "adult entertainment" industry has done more harm than good.
sidfaiwu,
obviously there is a difference of opinion on what is sinful and what isn't.
trey is writing from the conviction/understanding that porn is sinful, you believe differently.
if it is sinful, then it doesn't fit the category of things listed in the Lewis quote.
how you understand Matt 5:27ff is vital
if people can't have convictions, what's the point in beleiving anything
I think you misunderstand me, blogprophet. I know that most (if not all) Christians consider enjoying pornography sinful. I'm fine with that - believe what you like.
What bothers me is the false conclusion that since one group considers it sinful than it must be harmful for everyone when in fact it's not. I could even understand Christians finding it spiritually harmful in the sense that it harms one's relationship with God. But that's not what Trey wrote. He wrote that it is 'poison' to one's sex life - a very non-spiritual thing.
By all means have and enjoy your convictions. But please don't expect everyone to share those convictions. They may work well for you, but they would cause bitter unhappiness in in my life.
I agree with what Trey has said....enjoy the fruits of your wife and not those whom don't belong to you. As a husband and wife..you each belong to each other. Looking at other nude people having sex is not going to make your sex life better. All it does is spawn feelings for something you can never have but desire. That is called covetousness. You are not to covet your neighbors wife. This is why porn is wrong. Keep the marriage bed undefiled is what Paul says in Hebrews. Be careful what you call a marital aid. The devil doesn't need much help in tempting us to sin so why give him something to tempt you with?
Sidfaiwu,
I understand what you are saying, but this is not about a trivial matter, this is like what cwinwc said it is something that "threatens not only the very fiber of America but of our churches as well". You are trying to split hairs and God won't have it! Paul said there were some things we are at liberty to choose and even that statement comes with boundries, as long as we aren't hurting the (weaker) brethern. But I can't hardly believe and much less phathom him thinking that pornography would be bad for some and not for others. That is not a liberty he would say we have, he would say that is down right sinful.
You see we live in a culture that is self serving and has no regard for God's ways. And until we learn to submit to Him in all things, such thing like these will continue to fan the fires of rebellion. There is no justification for practising any type pornography, even if both you & your spouse are consenting.
His,
Maria
sidfaiwu,
You have either 1. never looked at porn or 2. never been married. If you have looked at porn and are married, then you know exactly the poison that trey is talking about. I still see images in my head that I have not laid eyes on since I was 12 yrs old and I am 36 now. I call that poison and it isn't healthy for any man's relationship with his wife.
I was where you are a few years ago. I can only hope that you choose to believe in God. It ain't easy, but it sure is better than the alternative. And you're right, there is no value in religion. There is only value in relationship with God. If you keep looking at humans as examples, you will continue to be sorely disappointed in Christianity. Even our pastors aren't immune. See today's post from Perry Noble, a pastor in SC. http://tinyurl.com/525m7c
Todd S
Hernando MS
Hello Maria,
Forgive me, but your comment comes across as highly judgmental.
"[Pornography] threatens not only the very fiber of America but of our churches as well"
How so? Give me some evidence. It's far to easy to pick something and claim it's destroying America to scare people into supporting your view. This has been said about minorities, immigrants, alcohol, rock music, and socialists in the past - none of which have proven decisively true. Furthermore, using said fear mongering has resulted in some of the ugliest moments in American history, such as McCarthyism, prohibition, internment camps, and racism. Claiming such is an act of a politician, not a Christian (though it's become harder to tell the difference - I fear political power has corrupted America's churches).
"But I can't hardly believe and much less phathom [Paul] thinking that pornography would be bad for some and not for others."
This particular fallacy is known as an argument from personal incredulity: "...an assertion that because one personally finds a premise unlikely or unbelievable, the premise can be assumed not to be true..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance. Since it is a logical fallacy, it does not contribute to your point.
"There is no justification for practising any type pornography, even if both you & your spouse are consenting."
Based on....... personal belief! One that I do not share. But if you go back and read my earlier comment, you will see that I was countering Tray's false claim that pornography is poison for one's sex life. It's simply not. I was not saying that Christians should consider the act okay.
As I wrote, go right ahead and think that it's wrong to view pornography, but don't make blanket claims that it's harmful to everybody's current lives. Doing such things is off-putting to those of us who do not believe but does not want to feel hostility towards religion. Your comment has made it that much harder to realize my goal.
Sidfaiwu,
Thank you for the comments and challenging my thinking. I also thank you for the kind way in which you disagree, unlike others sometimes. Thank you for allowing us to make comments back to you.
I'm going to have to stick with my original statement. I just don't believe it's healthy or good for a marriage, not just my marriage, but any marriage.
I will admit that I'm voicing my opinion, it doesn't have anything to do with "religion" or forcing others to think like I think.
I loved the CS Lewis quote and the thought behind it, but my concern for that statement in this situation would be that it could be used as an "okay" for anything from rape to child molestation to polygamy.
I know you've had a lot of comments in reguard to your posts, but please don't think we're beating up on you. You're welcome to voice your opinion around here anytime.
Powerful post, challeging thoughts and still I have to battle with this everyday.
There IS hope.
Thanks
Trey,
Great article, as always. Your words are very timely and contain incredible wisdom.
I’ve spoken of my fall on here before, even though pornography wasn’t the cause, I can verify the truthfulness of your statement regarding your life, your ministry and your influence not ever being the same again. And, I appreciate your honesty regarding the temptations that face all of us, even ministers.
Controlling what you see, seeking help from God, pursuing your wife, being accountable for your actions and having the support of your wife are keys to remaining faithful. I am glad to say that I work particularly hard at controlling what I see and making sure that my wife is the object of my desires.
Just a funny story then I will stop typing. A few months ago, as one of my co-workers and I were riding home we had to stop at the hardware store to pick up a few items. As we were leaving I noticed a couple, probably boyfriend/girlfriend, changing a flat tire. I asked my co-worker what is wrong with this picture thinking he would agree with me that it was weird that the girl was changing the tire while the boy stood and watched. But, his comment was I can’t see all of her tattoo. He was surprised to hear that I had not even noticed the tattoo on her lower back. The next day at work he told the rest of our co-workers that if he didn’t already know that I was married he would sware that I was gay.
Thanks for the great advice.
I believe in the Bible, so I know "I should abstain from all appearances of evil." Also, the verse that reads "Don't speak of the evil that is done in darkness."
These are paraphrased, I didn't have time to look them up. But if any one of you read the Bible, you'll know what I'm talking about.
A case in point, what if David hadn't been watching Bathsheba take a bath? Don't think you aren't
vulnerable and can handle all things because if you do that is when you let your defenses down. Good blog Trey. You told it like it
is. Stick with God's word.
Matthew 5--Jesus
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
and Job
"I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a girl.
Hello Trey,
Thank you for your welcome. My reception here has at least been warmer than it's been at other, similar sites. I appreciate the opportunity to share my concerns with how Christianity is expressed in today's America.
I owe a lot to Scott for convincing, no, for showing me that not all religionists fit the negative stereotype I had built up over the years. This has helped me become less confrontational and enabled me to enter into discussions as opposed to shouting matches.
You may have a point with your comparison to polygamy, but I think comparing pornography to child molestation takes it too far. Inclusion of children introduces a non-consenting person into the equation. Children are incapable of properly consenting because they lack the knowledge, world experience, and foresight to even understand what they are consenting to. Furthermore, in such an act, children are harmed. I know the Christian ethic is more expansive than just the concept of "do no harm" (http://www.sidfaiwu.com/blog/index.php/2007/07/conservative-morality-explained/), but certainly secularists and religionists both agree that harming innocence is wrong. For these reasons, I find comparisons of pornography (and homosexuality) to child molestation to be vacuous.
I'm much more interested in your comparison to polygamy. Indeed, I find polygamy to be wrong because of it's harm to society as a whole. Independent research has shown a causal relationship between polygamist societies and violence in youth. It turns out that pent-up sexual frustration causes young, poor men who can't get wives (because they are all taken by wealthier men) to become violent.
So I see a secular reason, in addition to your religious ones, for banning polygamy. But I don't see a corresponding causal relationship between pornography and the health of a marriage/sex life. In fact, my own experience has been the opposite, as it has been for others I know. I know that that constitutes only anecdotal evidence, but I've not seen evidence to the contrary that is not similarly anecdotal.
I don't quite feel beat up on from the responses. As I mentioned in my previous comment, I found Maria's a bit judgmental, but that may just be me reading tone into her comment that's not intended.
I do, however, have to respond to e3. "You have either 1. never looked at porn or 2. never been married." I find this extraordinarily presumptuous. I am, in fact, both. Scott can vouch for 2 since he's met my wive on multiple occasions. As for 1, you'll just have to take my word for it. And no, we have not found pornography to be poison.
Great post, Trey! (Especially the last paragraph)
AWESOME POST. Men and women alike should read this!!! OVER AND OVER!!!
Temptation faces us daily with everything. I love that you appreciate your wife (how could you not...look at how gorgeous she is in the picture!!)...I am in the best relationship of my life and we talked about loyalty and temptation.Neither of us are interested in straying...there are so few positives in life these days. We are fortunate to have each other.
WONDERFUL ....
sidfaiwu,
I think you should add one more word to your last sentence - "yet".
Just my opinion. Most harmful things seem very harmless, (and actually - sometimes seem very helpful), in the beginning. That's how you get sucked into thinking it's okay. Then somewhere down the road you'll eventually crash...and someone is going to get burned.
sidfaiwu,
i apologize for being presumtuous, but i just can't see how that situation with you and your wife watching porn together won't be harmful over time. at some point, we as men will start thinking of that girl on the screen instead of the wife in our beds, especially as our wives get older. trey summed that up in the 4th paragraph. if you beleive what the bible says, then that's adultry. it's one of the big ten, so you can see why we might be a little passionate about it.
I like what proverbs 5 says:
18 Let your wife be a fountain of blessing for you. Rejoice in the wife of your youth. 19 She is a loving deer, a graceful doe. Let her breasts satisfy you always. May you always be captivated by her love. 20 Why be captivated, my son, by an immoral woman,or fondle the breasts of a promiscuous woman?
21 For the Lord sees clearly what a man does, examining every path he takes. 22 An evil man is held captive by his own sins; they are ropes that catch and hold him. 23 He will die for lack of self-control; he will be lost because of his great foolishness.
Or if you'd prefer a CS Lewis quote, try chapters 5 and 6 of the book you referenced earlier. I think I'll review them tonight as well.
Todd S
Hernando MS
good post. Thank goodness people are talking about this more. As a teacher I wish more parents would take the "eliminate temptations from TV" seriously. I could get on a soap box with that one.
Side note: So how about that Brett Favre talking to Romo about playing through the pain!? Man I miss Brett. Some of us still claim him here in WI... Stupid Packers
Hey Sid!
Like I said, I agree with Trey and his post. One thing about sin as we Christians see it. If something is a sin, then that means (at the very least) that it is ultimately harmful, perhaps just for the relationship between God and man, perhaps more than that. So by believing that viewing pornography we believe that it is harmful for all.
The Lewis quote:
without wanting every one else to give it up. That is not the Christian way. An individual Christian may see fit to give up all sorts of things for special reasons - marriage, or meat, or beer, or the cinema;
touches on things that the Bible does not prescribe as being sinful by themselves. He was combatting (if memory serves) things like Prohibition where men take gray areas and make them black and white. When it comes to lust the Bible is pretty clear. I can defend nudity and sexuality displayed on screen to a point. It can serve a non-titillating purpose. I can't defend pornography the sole purpose of which is to cause lust.
While it might not destroy your marriage and I won't make a blanket statement that it will, I don't believe that it is ultimately beneficial for anyone.
And I too want to thank everyone for treating Sid well. You will find him to be a solid debater, a smart individual, and not someone that will let you slide with sloppy thinking. He's also a cool frood who knows where his towel is.
sidfaiwu, what about the sin involved in creating pornography? That alone is a very good reason NOT to bring porn into your marriage. You are participating in the sin involved in creating that porn.
I'm curious as to how long you have been married, and how old you are. (I have been married 29 years and am 50). For the record, I used to believe that some light indulgence in the milder porns of porn was pretty harmless. I have changed my mind. Porn damages how we view sex. Exposure to porn leads to the objectification of partners - especially women, to an increased need for more and more porn and more hard-core porn (because it is inherently unsatisfying) and an "idealization" of what the sex act/s should be like or could be like. None of these are useful for married intimacy.
Great Post!!!
Love the reminder to pursue your wife.
We're celebrating our 18th anniversary next month and it's always good to think back to the days when we first were pursuing each other when we didn't have a clue as to what love really was; and then to continue the pursuit 18 years later!!!
Thanks Trey,
Nathan
Trey,
Mark Driscoll from Mars Hill Church in Seattle has released an excellent ebook on this topic titled "Porn-Again Christian". Very frank discussion of pornography and Christians. You can find it at http://relit.org/porn_again_christian/
The relevance of this discussion is seen in the many comments...you hit a nerve! In my marriage counseling I am encountering a surprising number of situations where it is the woman who has begun an affair. Women also are subject to temptation and the market for steamy "romance novels" is very strong. As we talk of pursuing our wives let's remember their needs as well. They, too, can be tempted if we are not considerate lovers. Find out what they want and need (tenderness, non-sexual intimacy, romance) and supply it abundantly. And, when it comes to sexual intercourse, remember the FOREPLAY. They will let you know when it is time to bring things to a climax. Remember, sex is a team sport!
So true Dwight.
This post isn't for anyone in particular. I want to express to anyone that will read this that, in my opinion, pornography demeans women. Some men think that what they see on the screen is what they want out of their relationships. Wives are asked to perform for their husbands with other females, talk in the same way that they've heard women speak in the pornography even be talked to in that same un unwholesome manner. I am separated from my husband because I cannot be for him what he wants me to be.
I respect myself too much as a wife and mother to act out in a way I don't feel comfortable with. He tried to show me some of his pornographic images and videos and I felt sick to my stomach and I literally had to vomit. I believe that pornography is a form of pervertion and that only women with low self-esteem or sexual addiction would ever participate in it. My husband said that men are visual creatures, but I think that that also is a lie from the devil that has been planted in his heart as an excuse for his perverted thinking.
Thanks for reading this...
In Christ always~
To our anonymous last poster... I would agree with almost all of what you have said. The fact that your husband put his wants (for pornographic stimulation) before your needs (for an intimate relationship with your husband and no-one else and to be comfortable in the expresssion of your sexuality) shows just how perverted by porn and contemporary thinking many people have become. I think that men ARE visual creatures but that visual stimulation should be provided by their wives not third, fourth and fifth parties. Praying for healing for you.
Anonymous - Thanks for sharing some hurts from your heart. I'm sorry you've felt the pain. I think Wendy (wjcsydney) summed it up well when she said, "Men ARE visual creatures, but that visiual stimulation should be provided by his wife..."
Well said.
Also, here's a little more on the subject of the Porn Myth :http://www.treymorgan.net/2007/08/porn-myth.html
Great discussion here everyone. I recently wrote an article on a slightly different sexual subject, but it very much deals with why pornography is dangerous for the marriage relationship.
I encourage you to check it out here.
This is good stuff Bro.
Hello All,
Thanks for the feedback to my comments. I see a number of themes in the responses. I'll try to address them all.
The first is a number of comments claim that while it may not be poison initially, pornography will poison a marriage given enough time. This is qualification that was not made in the original statement. It also admits that it is possible for pornography to not be poisonous if viewed for short enough time.
I won't pretend that I know the future course of my marriage, so I'll refrain from prognosticating. However I will point out that none of you know the future of my or any other marriage either. Claiming otherwise, as a number of you have, is dishonest. That is, unless you back up your claims with valid reasons and/or evidence. The only reason offered so far is "i just can't see how that situation with you and your wife watching porn together won't be harmful over time," which is the personal incredulity fallacy (see my response to Maria).
Another theme is the claim that pornography and/or creating pornography is sinful. I have no doubt that almost all Christians believe this. But as a non-Christian, I am not bound by your stricter moral standards. Let me state that I have absolutely no problem with Christians or any other group holding themselves and other members of their group to stricter moral standards. I only have a problem when they hold non-members to moral standards to which they didn't agree to. I believe that Christianities sexual moral codes are out-dated at best and harmful at worst. Thus, I do not agree to adhere to them. In short, not all pornography creation and consumption is a sin in my opinion. I don't expect agreement on this, only understanding.
The third theme amounts to unsubstantiated claims as to how pornography negatively affects some people. These statements are nicely summed up by wjcsydney:
"Exposure to porn leads to the objectification of partners - especially women, to an increased need for more and more porn and more hard-core porn (because it is inherently unsatisfying) and an "idealization" of what the sex act/s should be like or could be like."
Actually, my porn consumption has become less frequent and softer-core. While some may respond the way you suggest, not everyone does. I have also not seen any tendency towards objectification of partners/women. I respect all people as people and try to never objectify them for any reason, including sexual reasons.
Finally, the claim that porn consumption leads to 'idealizing' sex is not always accurate either. You see, pornography is fantasy, not reality. Expecting real sex to be like porn sex is like expecting the real earth to be like Middle Earth, complete with hobbits and wizards. There are some people that do have trouble separating fantasy from reality but I am not one of them. The cynic in me is not surprised that religionists may have more trouble than most when it comes to separating fantasy from reality, so it may be a real issue for believers.
Excellent!
Monalea
Hi Sid,
You pointed out the qualification that pornography could poison the marriage given enough time "also admits that it is possible for pornography to not be poisonous if viewed for short enough time." I'm no toxicologist, but I think that could be said for most any poison.
How much mercury contamination is too much? Look at how long our homes were painted with lead paint. But despite the fact that some children "won the lottery" and were healthy despite growing up in a home with lead paint, we as parents take great pains to ensure the environment in which we grow our families is as pure as possible.
Maybe you could view pornography one time, or ten times, or twenty times and not harm your marriage. Where is the line drawn? Only fools rush in where angels fear to tread.
I guess I could take offense to the line where you share what the cynic in you thinks about "religionists." But the cynic in me is wondering why you are surprised that people posting on a blog hosted by a Christian pastor see the world from a Christian worldview.
To put it another way, if we really believe the behavior is harmful, what kind of people would we be if we didn't try to encourage others to turn away from it? As Christians we believe in the word of God as revealed in the scriptures. I respect your right to drive off the edge of the cliff if that's what you want, but don't expect me to stop trying to flag you down before you get there.
Peace,
Ray
porn is completely sick. just because you are tempted to look at it, doesnt mean you should. however, i am in absolutely NO WAY trivializing the temptation. 'anaonymous,' you rock. it must be unimaginably difficult to shed an addiction like that. God be with you, and all the others who are addicted to porn.
i agree with the guy who reminded us earlier abou what Jesus said of looking at women lustfully. adultery is explicitly stated as prohibited in the ten commandments. there is no way around it.
porn's one purpose is to feed your lust. husbands and wives are supposed to be ther for each other, and not in the cheesy 'little kid romance' movie way either. personally, i find that gross, (im only thirteen.) however, it is the way of God so that is what we should do.
then, chew on this for a while,
what if it was your daughter in that picture??
and sid is a great debater.
Trey,
As a counselor, I see the horrific effects of pornography on young men on a regular basis. Your practical advice from experience is great (I refuse the movie channels as well for the same reason).
Lust comes from the sinful desires of the heart which makes it that much more important to abide in Christ and cultivate the heart on a daily basis through constant prayer, Scripture, and fellowship in a healthy community.
Keep blogging my friend. It's a blessing!
Doug Chisholm
P.S. And since I have an extra minute, might I say that I was disturbed by some of arguments for pornography but also encouraged that unbelievers visit your blog and feel open interacting with you.
Unfortunately, some of the "best debaters" really aren't debating the issues, just debating semantics (philosophy majors maybe???). Secular, empirical study after study has shown the harmful effects of pornography on the human mind and how the addiction is blatantly progressive.
Secular research doesn't seem to always mesh with our beliefs, but on cohabitation/marriage/pornography it most certainly does.
I work with young addicts and am constantly amazed at the denial that results from the pornography addiction. It is unfortunate how consumers of pornography minimize, justify, and rationalize their destructive behaviors.
It's so refreshing to see godly men like yourself setting strong examples for your boys.
Take care,
Doug Chisholm
Just my opinion, but I don't think any of these things really work. We live in a sinful world that happens to be full of temptation and no rules of 'do not look, do not taste, do not touch' get to the root of the problem. I'm a wife who has not struggled in the area of lust so much, but I'm married to a man who has. When we were in a church that was constantly teaching us how to 'starve the source' and he was in accountability groups and getting teaching on lust and how to deal with it all the time, he struggled the most. That's because law provokes sin, only the gospel of grace can free us from sin by teaching us who we are in Jesus. Also, I've seen many women torn apart by the false idea that they can prevent their husbands' from falling into sexual sin by being their husband's call girl. It just isn't true. A healthy sex life is very important in marriage but it isn't the magical solution to lust. In fact, when my husband was struggling most with sexual sin, he was so angry, cold, and distant (due to the amount of condemnation he was experiencing from the devil and the church) that a healthy sex life wasn't possible--not because of me!
I hope I'm not coming across with a critical spirit, I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just wanted to share that my experience has been different. I thank God that, yes, through the cross and resurrection we can have freedom and new life, that the power grace is greater than the power of sin. There is hope for more than managing lust, there is real hope for transformation.
Jul,
I am very sorry to hear you had to deal with this issue first hand. I would agree that in very rare, extreme cases some men are not able to respond to normal practices of sexual relationships with their wives because of their own sin mounting in their lives. Of course, as you have stated this is not the wive's fault but a fault of their own. Wives are really helpless in these situations as you have described until the husband decides he needs real help beginning from God.
1 John 2:16 is still very true. When anyone in any relationship is not content with their spouse and decides to go outside those walls for satisfaction (whether it be strip clubs, porn or other female companionship) this lust breeds sin and when the sin comes to fruition there is only spiritual death. It is very sad, but most spouses can do very little with a person like this until they decide to change. I don't think Trey was insinuating that you be a call girl for your husband in these very extreme cases as you have described. I think the point is if the wife is never doing her part in being sexual for her husband (and for herself) then the husband will seek this relationship else where (correct me if I am wrong Trey).
Jul
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I'm sure you're not the only person who has dealt with this the way you have. I do know that as a man my level of sexual temptation is almost none when my sexual life is happy and healthy at home.
Robert is right in saying that many times the wives are helpless in certain situations. You're may be that situation.
Robert ... well said.
But as a non-Christian, I am not bound by your stricter moral standards. Let me state that I have absolutely no problem with Christians or any other group holding themselves and other members of their group to stricter moral standards. I only have a problem when they hold non-members to moral standards to which they didn't agree to. I believe that Christianities sexual moral codes are out-dated at best and harmful at worst. Thus, I do not agree to adhere to them. In short, not all pornography creation and consumption is a sin in my opinion. I don't expect agreement on this, only understanding.
Sid, I understand your thought process here, however, it is, unfortunately, dead wrong. Romans 14:12 says "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." If I tell you about the law of gravity as you stand on the edge of a skyscraper, will the fact that you disagree with my reasoning combined with your unwillingness "to adhere" to that law keep you from dying a horribly grotesque death if you jump or fall from that skyscraper? Absolutely not.
No one here is asking you to adopt an opinion as fact. Every person here, regardless of tone, is speaking to you out of a pure love and sincere prayer that you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. In that knowledge is the repentance of sin...one of which is pornography - despite your refusal to admit that it is sin.
Our society has done you a tremendous disservice - we have failed to call sin - sin. We have called it "freedom of speech," "right to privacy," "freedom of choice," etc. But God is very clear that there is not one person on the earth now or ever in history who will escape the judgement that is to come. 2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ..."
Hebrews 9:27 And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
One of the synonyms of adultery is "fornication" meaning sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to one another. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
What is pornography if not: 1)fornication between two (or more) people who are not married to one another, and being viewed by someone NOT married to the ones performing the act; 2)men and women abusing themselves with mankind by putting themselves at risk for disease, abuse, and a host of other problems that come along with porn; 3)very often abusive to the women (and men) who participate in making the movie/photo/etc., and 4) extorting the God-given blessing of sex for monetary gain?
I don't presume to understand how or why you came to the place where you feel it is permissable and profitable to view pornography, even within the confines of your marriage. But, you must look at this in light of what God sees. Again, saying you don't believe in trucks and that as such, you can't be harmed by one, is an argument that won't mean anything as you are standing in the middle of a highway while a semi roars toward you.
Sid, I plead with you to get out of the road before the truck gets any closer. God is waiting on your call. I implore you to call on Him now, while He can still be found.
Toni - Your reply and words were excellent. Thank you for taking the time to write.
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